Vital Sampler: which root note does it expect?

When loading a sample into the sampling engine which root note is expected?

What I mean in particular: should I always load a (for example) C3 sample for normal frequency / note distribution?

I don’t think it does really matter, as note distribution is relative. When the root note of the sample doesn’t match, you can always tune it.

Cerainly, I understand that the sample can be tuned. But note distribution is not relative. a C1 has a different frequency than a C2, C3, C4 and so on.

It certainly is relative. An octave is always a doubling of the frequency, the factor between a C and, say, a D is always the same, no matter which octave you’re in.
It’s not linear, if that’s what you mean.

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I did not make any mention of “linearity”, whatever that is supposed to mean in the given context. A C1 corresponds to a different frequency than a C2, C3 and so on.

Now imagine: you go through a bunch of presets and you play the C3 note. Some play with a frequency centered around 130.8 while others play with a 261.6 (which is one octave up from C3 = C4). I would say that there would be a bit of an inconsistency here.

That’s why all these notes are defined with a corresponding frequency.

Hence my question: which would be the default key of a sample, so that it will perfectly align with the corresponding frequencies, as expected when hitting any potential note on the keyboard? What key does the sample have to have, so that it will be in tune (not just “relatively”, but actually in tune, so not an octave below or above the actual frequency it’s supposed to play at the hit of a key)? Because if relative accuracy was the gold standard, than a C3 could play at C4 or C5 or C1 - it wouldn’t actually matter. But it matters.

Again: I’m talking about this exact frequency-note relationship here:

I hope this makes it clearer.

To be honest, I don’t really get what you’re trying to say. If your sample has a discernible fundamental frequency, and you tune your sample accordingly, so that this frequency matches that of your regular oscillator, it will transpose accordingly, when keytrack is activated.
When you tune your sample to C4 instead of C3, and play D3 on your keyboard, it will play a D4. It should not play at some weird frequency that doesn’t match a note. So if your sample is an octave to high tune it down by an octave. I made you an example:
Example Root Note.vital (1.1 MB)
I took a sample with a root note E3 and pitched it to match C4. When you play the patch it transposes, perfectly matching OSC1.

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Okay, maybe I didn’t explain the issue clear enough. My question is actually much simpler and maybe I am overthinking.

My question was: when using the sampler module, what note does a sample have to be so that when I hit (for example) C3 it will play C3 and not C1, C2 or C4?

In other terms: what root note is expected? And I mean without having to additionally tune anything. Which note can I load so that it will play perfectly in tune, not just relatively, but actually (a C3 being a C3, not a C2 or C4 eg). It matters because as I said earlier: when you go through various patches and the one patch plays a C3 at C1, while the next plays a C3 at C5 and another one gets it right and plays C3 at C3 = there would be a bit of an inconsistency between the patches. That’s why synth patches and sample libraries should be set to play the correct note (not just relatively, playing a C will play some C note, but actually hitting C3 on the keyboard will play an actual C3).

That might actually be possible :laughing:

The short answer is: I don’t know the underlying specs.

The somewhat longer answer is: Try it out.
For example, render a sinewave at C3, load it to the sampler and see how you have to tune it to perfectly match an oscillator playing a sinewave at C3. Bonus points for phase inverting, so a perfect match cancels the sound. Then you can post your findings here, as a reference to look up.

In the end, it doesn’t really matter, as you can tune your sample in a way that it fits your sound.

We all have a different approach, but it definitely matters. I tried to explain it a few times and it should be easy to grasp: when I hit a C1 on my keyboard, I want it to playback a sound that corresponds to C1, not to C2, C3, C4 or C0. Or in other words: I always want the notes to play in their correct octave, not 1, 2 octaves above or below their supposed position. Is that such an exotic concept to you?

This is important to ensure consistency when switching from one preset to another.

Earlier I posted a link to a table where you see which note corresponds to which frequency;

A C1 with a base frequency of 32.7 is not the same as a C4 with a base frequency of 261.6

When I hit C1 I don’t want it to play a sound that plays at 261.6

That’s why it matters that the sample is chosen correctly, to correspond with the note played. I have difficulty understanding why anyone who is involved in making music for more than 6 months would have a hard time grasping such a trivial fact?

Phase inverting doesn’t make much sense here. My goal is not to recreate or phase cancel a generic sine wave. Why would I want to do that?

I rather just load a sample and use a frequency analyzer to determine it’s exact base frequency, since none of the Vital users seem to know what they are doing when they use the sampler module.

Do what you must do. I’m out and muting this topic.:man_shrugging:

Because this seems to be undocumented I guess the sample is being processed to each key in the sampler, no matter what key it was being recorded at. So even if you sample in key of C0 that sample will be processed by the sofware in key C0 when played back. Is there a difference that can be heard between original sample and sampler playback when played in the original key it was sampled at?

It’s not so an issue of the sampler “processing” the sample. It’s a mapping issue. The sampler is “dumb”. It doesn’t know the key of the sample. Hence, to get a correct mapping, you either have to give the sampler a sample in the correct pitch or you have to tune the sample to align with the keyboard layout.

I was curious: which key does the sampler “expect” so that the mapping will be correct without any further tuning?

In other words: what pitch does the sample have to be in, so that whenever I hit a key on the MIDI keyboard it will play at the correct pitch. Obviously the sample has to be in C pitch, but which C? C0, C1, C2, C3 …?

Another way to put this: what is the default root note of the sampler?

By correct pitch I mean the correct key and correct octave. So, I don’t want it to play C2 when I hit the C1 key on my keyboard. I want C1 to play C1. This is important for consistency between patches.

So, from my tests I concluded that the sampler probably expects the sample to be in C3 for a correct mapping.