Exactly… You can hear it quite by ear and most importantly you notice it using a spectrum analyzer or just looking at the integrated top right analyzer. Without distortion I had solved the problem but with active distortion it no longer seems to work…
Also I have just experienced that by setting the initialization preset (with sine wave) and resetting the phase randomization and deelay parameters, looking at the analyzer in the upper right during playback there is still a phase shift… This is very strange!
Either there is some setting in Reaper that is not suitable for this synth or there is actually a bug. See the attached video to understand better.https://vitalpublic.s3.dualstack.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/original/2X/1/14c0028d2b208684bf84fb198c53728dc20161f6.mp4
@g.lorenzo.pro the long releases are likely to induce weird things. When a new MIDI note comes in, you can actually hear random phase from the OSC resetting while still it is still playing. And you can hear the voices interfere with each other.
On your “Vital - Bug Distortion” patch, if you set both releases to zero and set short decays (60ms ish), there is no issues whatsoever. Randomness is from the MIDI input (punny humans ).
Also, you can try using ‘Legato’ so that the OSC is not reset when you hit the same key a second time.
You are at the limit of what a synth can do here. Are you trying to make drum sounds?
Yes drum sounds. I think I solved by increasing the Voices because probably the 8 Voices weren’t enough using high releases but I am not entirely convinced that I have completely solved the problem, maybe I will be wrong…
Here is another example of variable transient, modulating the oscillator or sample pitch using a fast envelope. I ensured that the Delay parameter was 0. Is this expected to work at audio rate? Pitch mod - transient variability.vital (591.9 KB)
@benoit.roehr I observed the same issue as g.lorenzo.pro in his example, also after setting the decay to shorter times and voices to 1 (to avoid voice overlaps), as indicated in my response above.
@g.lorenzo.pro My testing is not in Reaper, but in Logic… so I don’t think it is reaper specific
Did you mean my “pitch modulation” example? Yes sorry i see I saved it with the osc activated. I can hear a transient variability only when modulating the sample pitch. Perhaps that is not “audio rate safe”…? OK if so.
Of your last preset no problem of phase for me.
With this other example, if i play via a MIDI keyboard, I perceive a strong phase shift, while if I play the sequencer, the sound is perfect. Maybe there is an option in Reaper that handles this via MIDI??Last preset.vital (244.9 KB)
@Tytel said the pitches are modulated at audio rate in this thread.
I didn’t understood what you wanted to say here. Can you clarify?
It is possible that there is an intermittent bug somewhere, because I remember having hunted a phase issue for hours, but after cleaning the patches and trying to pinpoint it, well, I couldn’t reproduce it. It was feeling like Vital was put is some kind of ‘mode’ where the phase would be seemingly random, and after reloading the patch it was gone…
@g.lorenzo.pro
What kind of drums?
Also, don’t rely on the oscilloscope on the top of the windows on long notes. It is free running and is not really reliable to check phase. You need shorter bleeps to see the phase at the ADSR open. I can’t hear randomness in your latest video.
From what I have tried, it is a good thing first of all to set the phase randomization and the deelay knob with the double click of the mouse to zero.
Once this is done, playing via the MIDI keyboard I hear phase shifting but while playing MIDI item from sequencer the problem seems to disappear…
So my conclusion is that I was probably wrong during the initial setup of the sound but I would like to try to understand the reason for the phase shift when I play with my MIDI keyboard.
There is probably some setting in Reaper to change, right?
@g.lorenzo.pro
I couldn’t reproduce the phase shift with MIDI on your latest patch.
Can you try this one and tell if you are experiencing weird transients? Last preset - ShortenedPlop.vital (244.9 KB)
There might be something fishy with your keyboard yes. But I can’t help you there as I don’t see what could be wrong. I would say try with the integrated virtual MIDI keyboard so you’ll at least know if it is coming from Reaper or your MIDI USB keyboard. And also record some MIDI input from the hardware keyboard and check the data with the MIDI event list view to see what it is doing exactly.
Ok how can I see what exactly my MIDI keyboard does? Anyway see the video now despite all the checks the problem has arisen again I don’t know what to do, with the other synths I’ve never had these problems I can’t understand the main problem what it is!
And listening to the newly exported audio file completely changes the phase with respect to playback!
I have now solved the problem by resetting the HOLD knob to 0 again despite it being already set to 0 … In my opinion an update is absolutely necessary.
@g.lorenzo.pro yeah you also had a bit of hold in the last patch you shared, but it shouldn’t make any phase change.
Can you share the whole reaper project? I’ll take a look at it.
@g.lorenzo.pro yup, you nailed something here. @Tytel If you can try the above Reaper project, you’ll notice a variation between the shots. It bugs out when the Env Hold is above zero and under 1ms.
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