Has Vital really lost its reputation? [looong text]

[Disappointed-User]

Hello everyone,

here are a few thoughts from a fresh Vital newbie

UPDATES:

The topic par excellence in all forums (here, KVR, Discord, Reddit etc):

When will there be updates again? Is Matt still alive? The plugin is dead! Vital sucks! Plus all kinds of speculation, insinuations etc.

04/23 - Matt wrote here:

‘Hi, yes I’m fine. I did have to step away from the forum and discord for a while because of an unexpected family health issue which took my full attention (I won’t go into details but everything turned out OK thankfully). And yes, I’m still working and Vital (and some stuff that might go into a new plugin). I think when I have some time I’ll hire somebody to give more support and respond to users so it’s not just silent from me if I have to step away for something like this or if I just want to focus on development.’

11/23 - Matt wrote here:

‘I’m still here and working on Vital. I’ll make an announcement when there’s a new version.’

His last post here is also from 11/23, but he had been online for the last few days…

He is a one-man company like many plugin manufacturers, please don’t forget. He probably also has a daytime job.

I love Vital too, but what exactly do you expect?

That there will be a monthly update? With what kind of features? Even more LFOs? What exactly is so ‘urgently’ missing?

Why don’t you just make music with Vital? That’s what the plugin is for! Not just to play around with it and wait for new effects…

I also have a few wishes regarding the UI, but that’s it for now. Everything else is just ‘nice to have’.

There was a lot of hype about Vital in the forums at the beginning, but now there’s really only grumbling. Will that a) motivate Matt or b) even bother him?

Should he continue to develop Vital or spend most of his time answering the same questions in forums and announcing the progress of his development every day?

All in all, it’s just pretty sad how quickly people throw in the towel in a huff and immediately move on to the next synth…

By the way, here is Vital’s release timeline to help you understand:

• 11/20 - 1.0.0 first release (after 3+ year of development)

• 12/20 - 1.0.4

• 01/21 - 1.0.5

• 02/21 - 1.0.6

• 02/21 - 1.0.7

• 03/21 - 1.0.8

• [ here the first users have already complained about the lack of updates!!! ]

• 09/22 - 1.5.1

• 09/22 - 1.5.2

• 09/22 - 1.5.3

• 10/22 - 1.5.4

• 02/23 - 1.5.5

• [ here Matt had to justify where he was after only 2 months… ]

SERUM:

Version 2 is now suddenly out and Matt will of course have a look at it first. They have partly taken over things from Vital, but Matt can get a few ideas from them again.

So that can influence the next release but also delay it accordingly…

But Vital will hopefully always remain Vital. For example, I don’t need most of the new features of Serum 2 (Multi Sample Player, Monster Arp, Clip Sequencer).

STABILITY:

Vital 1.5.5 runs flawlessly on Windows 11 and FL Studio 24, no crashes or problems so far.

I think it will also work without any problems for the majority of users, but of course they don’t always write about it in the forums

There are only a few left for whom it doesn’t work or only works partially (which, according to Matt, is quite annoying/time-consuming to find out).

PRESETS:

I tried Vital 5 years ago, but somehow I couldn’t do anything with it and deleted the plugin.

For the last few weeks I’ve been looking for a synth with at least 3 oscillators that can halfway replace my old V-Station from 2003, as it’s buggy, Novation won’t be updating it any more and the plugin probably won’t be able to be activated on a new PC despite being ‘freeware’

After adapting some of my old V-Station presets to Vital, I quickly realised that I could do a lot more with Vital.

I’m more the type of person who generates new sounds based purely on oscillators, a bit of filter, sparse effects and that’s it!

I don’t need any crazy LFO modulations, any complex sequences or wild rides through the wavetables etc.

But Vital has lost its reputation for precisely these functions, especially because it is considered a Serum competitor and has attracted a corresponding audience.

There are thousands of presets and dozens of sound banks for Vital, but most of them are filled with psytrance, dubstep, overdriven sounds, overloaded sequences and generally too many effects on top.

The majority of these presets are merely a showcase of Vital’s possibilities, but are virtually unusable in a musical context.

So if you buy Vital, you have to deal with sound design yourself and that certainly puts a lot of people off.

I recently bought a few sound packs because the demos sounded quite good, but then realised that almost all the presets were based on Osc 4 with one sample.

Since Vital is freeware and the majority of ‘poor’ users are guaranteed to only use the free version, this will certainly not encourage any of the well-known sound designers to create sound banks for a fee.

PRICE:

I can understand the somewhat strange pricing, Matt wanted to make Vital legally accessible to everyone for free, but at the same time somehow still earn money with it.

But if there is ever a version 2, I would do away with all the different pricing models and charge a flat $69 - $89 for it.

Thanks to 1.5, people know roughly what they are getting and that 2.0 is ‘easily’ worth it.

I own the Pro version, but the bottom line is that I didn’t buy the plugin itself, I just paid for the additional presets and TTWT - which I don’t need.

CONCLUSIONS:

Extremely cool synth, modern homepage, cool YouTube product presentations, smart forum.

There is (currently) no support and updates are only sporadic.

I don’t have that many ‘real’ feature requests for updates, it’s just important to me that Vital remains fundamentally functional and that the same thing doesn’t happen to me as with the V-Station…

[Herold]

02/23 - 1.5.5

Version 1.5.5 was already released in fall '22. Since then there have been no more updates and there won’t be any more. Matt’s “reaction” speaks volumes…

Presumably it was the same with his last synth “Helm”? First great hype and commitment, then suddenly nothing?

It’s a waste of time to write emails to support, report bugs or ask for new features.

Vital is usable but dead.

Even if there are updates again: who cares about them? The trust is simply gone.

Also read these both threads:

Should Vital be sold?

With all respect to Tytel for creating an awesome synth - given we haven’t seen even a single bugfix update in like a year or so, do you think Vital development would be better handled by a company that would have resources for it, from user’s perspective? We’ve been told that there’s a lot on Vital’s roadmap, but given Matt’s apparent ability to allocate resources to Vital, it doesn’t seem like those will come to being any time soon. One developer is only one human being who only can do what …

Thought Experiment: Matt should abandon the free version and sell Vital for half the price of Serum, (with regular Black Friday sales)

I think that Matt should consider abandoning the idea that Vital can be a free synth and should consider marketing it as a superior competitor to Serum but for close to half of Serum’s price. The added revenue could result in the employment of some business, marketing and programming experts who could build the project into a truly magnificent and dominant powerhouse.

[afikcja]

So I think I understand the strange allegations. It’s not about updates. But some people see that Matt is not involved in the development of a great product like “Vital”. And they think how to take over this well-known product and make a lot of money from it. That’s what this is about and nothing else. Take away the free “Vital” from the people and make them pay $$$.
Here on this forum there have been several of the same threads with different titles and one conclusion: ‘since Vital is dead, it should be taken over and made into a business for a narrow group of people’.
People,stop repeating the same clichés. If you want to make money, do your own project.‘Vital’ had other goals.

[afikcja]

We have hundreds of paid VST plug-ins and “Vital” will not add anything here. When it comes to free VST plug-ins, “Vital” is right at the top and adds a lot. And it had better stay that way forever.

[HermanVonElsewhere]

@Disappointed-User

The majority of these presets are merely a showcase of Vital’s possibilities

To be fair this isn’t uncommon. Also, it depends on what type of music you’re writing. F.ex. psytrance presets are useful when making psytrance. There are tons of free presets for Vital. Just go and dl them.

[HermanVonElsewhere]

@Disappointed-User

at the same time somehow still earn money with it.

This is unlikely. Vital could have been turned to fairly good $ business but Tytel has chosen not to do that. It seems they’re not in it for money.

If they are, then they’re likely trying to get as much money out if it with as little effort as possible. But as it’s a free synth it doesn’t seem like money drives this synth development.

[afikcja]

I read an article where Matt mentioned how he used to be poor and didn’t have money for a VST. And that’s why he wanted to make a free plugin for everyone. His paid “pro” and “plus” versions are more of a thank you and buy some presets etc.
In the external free “Vital” presets we have awesome pads used everywhere in newer genres. We have great bells too that are universal. Basses and other things can be used for a variety of music too. There are no acoustics and many classical sounds that are better played on physical instruments anyway.
So it’s a VST synth with a fairly wide range of uses, with more modern electronic sounds used in trance, techno, dark ambient, dub, reggae etc.

[nielsotto]

I think the silence is mostly a psychological problem on the user side and a communication issue on the dev side. Vital 1.5.5. works without issues for me, but i like to be entertained with new features and having the security of using a product that is maintained or get help if needed. All this gives the feeling of a product that is “alive”.
Despite of the entertainment factor there is one aspect in software that is more serious, the question if it is worth in learning and relying on a platform when i know a future OS update could break the compatibility. The synthesis skills i gained aren’t lost, only the handling of GUI has to be relearned when switching synths but for people who are relying on a synth for live gigs as an instrument where speed of real time performances matters, support and updates are a more important aspect in software decisions.
I bought the pro version, without specific expectations but with the hope to keep the project alive and having a flow of surprises, even if they aren’t necessary.

[glomerol]

I think we’re positively spoiled. Maybe all the devs like Matt know this. There’s just so much free plugins (including paid ones you can get for free) out there it’s not even funny, but who’s laughing? LOL Oh! What I said!
If I wanted to, I could probably find a free copy of the new Serum and start with it right away, but you know me and wavetable synths.

I’ve got free copies of Spectral (Linplug), Harmor (off-DAW) and Chromaphone just collecting dust and waiting for me to do something with. I even had a free Diva with a very nice third-party skin. Ya-ya, I had Massive X too and who knows what else, I’ve lost count.

What I don’t have is time. Oh sure, I have time, but not the kind that truly clears the air and allows me to breathe and be really creative, at least with my music. Quality time I guess it’s called.

Matt, we and whoever else will do what we do and don’t do with our time. As it should be, yes? And so some will ‘ominously’ say with their free time that Vital is losing its reputation.

Now if you’ll excuse me while I head out in the summer sun by bike to my community-garden plot to water my lemon verbena and lemongrass for my teas (I noticed Matt drinking what appeared to be tea in that video <3)…

Life is good.

(Coffee’s good too, but I prefer teas/infusions 9.75 times out of 10.)

[glomerol]

Don’t Believe Crony-Capitalist Propaganda: There Are Free Lunches (Breakfasts And Dinners)

Just to add to my immediately-preceding comment…

My lemon verbena and lemongrass plants were/are also free. Here’s what I did:

There is a small city park here where, a couple of summers ago, it was noticed that they had planted lemon verbena! I wasn’t sure what or if it was, but took a clip home to ID it online.

So I returned and took about four clippings (basically just a new-growth-tip of a plant branch that consisted of maybe about 4 leaves in total) and popped the stems into soil in a pot (actually each along the edges of a transparent plastic cup so I could see through the plastic at the roots growing, if any). Most sprouted except one. So I then had bona-fide starter plants that I could then transplant anywhere.

The lemongrass (the incredibly-delicious fave for my cold-milk-blender-brewed green teas) was acquired from an Asian grocery store. (Ok, I paid for those initials.) I added all to my teas, but kept two and simply placed the lower part in soil in a pot. One sprouted. A later third’s bottom 1/4 was placed in a glass of water. It successfully sprouted.

Come the summer, I transplanted the lemongrass and verbena into my garden plot and both grew fantastically-- no real bugs and the deer don’t like either (which can’t be said about half of my other food-plants like tomatoes, aragula, beans, squash or capsicum.)

Lemongrass is a bunch grass, so it grows in bunches and toward the end of the summer, it grows into a big and full bunch (of thick grass stalks) that, alone, provide more than enough for my teas. I uproot, snap off and save/replant three stalks to overwinter indoors and prep and freeze the rest for teas all winter.

I should find out how easy it is to grow the actual tea plant.

---

“… So money goes toward those who will create even more of it. But, basically economic growth means that you have to find something that was once nature and make it into a good, or was once a gift-relationship and make it into a service. You have to find something that people once got for free or did for themselves or for each other, and then take it away and sell it back to them, somehow. By turning things into commodities, we get cut off from nature in the same ways we are cut off from community.” ~ Charles Eisenstein

“The nature to which people are able to be social, civilized, sympathetic is quite amazing and it’s in contradiction to the nature of the money.” ~ From the documentary, ‘The Money Fix’

“Here’s good advice for practice: go into partnership with nature; she does more than half the work and asks none of the fee.” ~ Martin H. Fischer